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Almontaser abetting

I do, however, care for those Muslims, and others, injured by this vile excrescence masquerading as a human being. What it said to me was that there is a wave of political persecution underway, that it comes in various forms and from various directions e.

Steve LaBonne Ooh, what a terrifying prospect! The horror! Tell Agent Judt to abort operations! Our plan to flood the US with crap food, shitty weather and ineffective dentists has just been exposed! What next, American Muslims have to wear identifying clothing? Anderson Anyone, fore theodosian snapshot andover denotes, in Europa Mr.

Alex In fact, pretty much the entirety of the criminal law is based on the principle that the thought is father to the act; you need to have mens rea as well as actus reus to be guilty. For example, what if I were to misrepresent the value of some bonds? I merely suggested some concepts.

Now, that particular guy did get away with it. But if you can be convicted by command responsibility…. I completely agree that there is a vast gaping difference between trying to fire someone for actions that were directly intended to facilitate torture,1 and firing someone because vicious paranoid hatemongers like Daniel Pipes and his cronies say that she deserves firing. The question is whether that distinction can be maintained politically.

Henry, why are you so sure that the appropriate response is to defend a largely nonexistent geenral right, rather than to argue the merits of the particular cases? Colin Danby The Pipes statements are beyond belief. Used to be I naively assumed a certain bedrock procedural liberalism — people get to speak, organize, act in the public sphere.

Legal is good. Apparently not. In any large bureaucratic structure that does evil things, most of the decision makers are writing memos and speaking or not speaking in meetings. Whiplash, no? Dylan Thurston I think lemeul has it right. Everyone remember Larry Summers? On the other hand, what I understand of what has happened to Ms.

Almontaser is totally unwarranted, independent of any academic freedom arguments. Not absurd, but not realistic either. In effect, this standard would relieve any high official of culpability for any act that had the consent of the Administration. Granting tenure is different than the case of firing someone with tenure, which confers a variety of legal rights, both substantive and procedural.

I would again suggest that before commenting, it would be advisable to read the longer statement linked, above, esp. There is no question that, as things stand, it would be illegal for Berkeley to even investigate Yoo, let alone terminate him. That is why, in the end, this really amounts to an attack on him for his ideas. The test is simple. Hope not. The point is that Yoo occupied a position of trust and responsibility, that the memo was a legal document that other people needed to proceed.

This is what Leiter tries to evade. In the real world, broader acceptance of the Farrell pinciple would simply lead to the worst of both worlds — protection of high-profile wrongdoers like Yoo and continued vulnerability for ordinary workers.

Second, it closes off discussion of how employers who do possess broad discretion should use it. Remember, we are talking here about either public instituions, or non-profits with a strong public presence and mission. Their decisions about hiring and firing are and at least in the case of e. This is politically self-defeating and I think, unconvincing even as an ideal. Again, I sympathize with skeptics on the procedural rights questions.

Sortition This is the trickle down theory of free speech or free action. The theory states that if we insist that the powerful high-placed officials and high-profile academics enjoy full immunity for their speech and actions, then someday regular folks may also enjoy similar protections.

Occupying positions of power is wrong to begin with, but doubly so when used to promote evil policies. Free speech and actions by normal citizens should be protected — the powers of the elites should be confronted. As I have pointed out before, this is not correct. Apparently, at an institution devoted principally to training future lawyers, the fact that a law professor rendered stunningly incompetent legal advice is not supposed to even be a factor in whether he should continue teaching law students.

Whether to fire a law prof for stunning incompetence is a fair question. This is not the sort of question you can answer from first principles. You really do have to look at specific cases on their own merits. What does Yoo think a legal opinion for a client is supposed to do, and why does he think his memos did it? History and experience show pretty plainly that when you invite public opinion into such decisions, you make possible the interference you see with Pipes in the Almontaser case.

They hope that the issues are confused in order to gain the support of citizens who—with a better view of the issues at stake—would be suspicious of their mission. Academics should make every honest effort to prevent that from happening. Yes, universities are not courts, and they have made what is surely a correct decision not to try to be courts of criminal justice.

What would universities be like if allegations that a faculty member had committed a crime could trigger a university investigation into the possible crime? Yet universities conduct investigations all the time. They investigate allegations of misconduct by both students and faculty, and these investigations can have serious consequences for the accused. Students may be expelled, and faculty, even tenured faculty, fired on various grounds.

Of course these are not criminal trials, since the university has no power to impose criminal penalties. Still they are, I assume, reasonably well-designed proceedings with standards of proof, ample opportunity for the accused to mount a defense, and so on. And of course these proceedings are often triggered by allegations.

What else? So the idea that the university ought not, and cannot, conduct actual criminal trials seems to have been turned into the idea that it cannot conduct any sort of quasi-judicial proceeding for the purpose of disciplining members of its own community. Other schools are under no obligation to hire him. But they should be the ones to decide in the end whether they want Yoo or not. If Henry, or you, or I want to sound off on Yoo or Almontaser, why is that a problem or a contradiction of my argument?

Both cases are matters of public interest, and good citizens ought to express themselves on them. If we have informed and well-reasoned opinions, maybe the good folks at Berkeley Law will pay attention to us. Jason McCullough Sucks, but there you go. As for Pipes—by the way—he has every right to run his mouth about supposedly subversive teachers, too.

What also connects the cases says I is the issue of public opinion either actually Almontaser or potentially Yoo obstructing or replacing the judgment of faculty about an academic appointment. We should defend the former but not the latter for the simple reason that the former but not the latter are under attack. No one has suggested that Berkeley be compelled to do so by the state or federal government; indeed, our premise is precisely that no legal action agfainst Yoo is to be expected.

In general, blogs are full of people advocating some course of action without asserting their right to compel it. They are not the majority, or even a plurality, but they are loud. Consider how close they are to what Pipes is doing, by the way: there, the argument would be that insisting that Almontaster deserves the protection of academic freedom, she or the faculty are hiding Islamofascism behind academic freedom—that is, using it as an instrument.

Both are out of line. The argument I understand you to be making is more complex: that Yoo has failed to meet standards of conduct and competence that the faculty have already decided are the conditions of the privilege of academic freedom as far as they are obligated to extend and protect it. Again, it threatens to reduce procedures for stripping someone of academic privileges to a means to an end: getting rid of Yoo.

People are arguing that the faculty should decide to fire Yoo, not that Yoo should be fired regardless of what the faculty thinks. I might think less well of them, but that depends on their rationale and the facts they adduce. Oops — sorry I shot my blog-mouth off too quickly, Maurice; I see you do treat of competence later in your comment. And she has been parrticularly insistent that Berkeley faculty take the lead.

As far as I can tell, most of the rest of us who wnat to see Yoo removed take similar views. In a statement late yesterday afternoon, Ms. Almontaser backed away from her comments, reported by the New York Post, saying she regretted suggesting the T-shirt slogan was appropriate.

Almontaser has previously led inter-group tolerance lessons for city schoolchildren, and her supporters say her school, the Khalil Gibran International Academy, will bridge differences by teaching a diverse group of students the Arabic language alongside a traditional college preparatory curriculum.

Among the critics to emerge before she released her statement yesterday were several groups that had extended close support to the school, set to open in Brooklyn this September. I think Abe Foxman should feel like a fool.

Foxman's group, the Anti-Defamation League, had defended the Khalil Gibran school against charges of ties to Islamic terrorism, vowing it would actually abet discrimination. Yesterday, however, the league's New York State regional director, Joel Levy, said he sent an e-mail message to the Department of Education after reading Ms. Almontaser's comments, which he called troubling. The T-shirts were produced by a group called Arab Women Active in Art and Media and spotted by members of a watchdog group that opposes Khalil Gibran, the Stop the Madrassa Coalition, at an Arab cultural fair last month.

After the activists traced the art group to Ms. Hall said they decided the T-shirts represented their worst fears about Khalil Gibran: that it will advocate terrorist violence. Almontaser for her perspective before making a judgment. In a conversation, Rabbi Bachman said Ms. Almontaser assured him that she did not condone the T-shirts.

He said he is confident that Khalil Gibran will be an antidote to terrorism, not a perpetrator of it. The executive director of the American Jewish Committee, David Harris, condemned the T-shirts in a statement, but a spokesman, Ken Bandler, said the committee does not condemn the school. Bandler said. Chancellor Joel Klein has supported Khalil Gibran despite protests.

The school has also received grants from the Bush administration, through a program created to promote Arabic- and Chinese-language education. Submission of reader comments is restricted to NY Sun sustaining members only.

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But if you can be convicted by command responsibility…. I completely agree that there is a vast gaping difference between trying to fire someone for actions that were directly intended to facilitate torture,1 and firing someone because vicious paranoid hatemongers like Daniel Pipes and his cronies say that she deserves firing.

The question is whether that distinction can be maintained politically. Henry, why are you so sure that the appropriate response is to defend a largely nonexistent geenral right, rather than to argue the merits of the particular cases? Colin Danby The Pipes statements are beyond belief. Used to be I naively assumed a certain bedrock procedural liberalism — people get to speak, organize, act in the public sphere. Legal is good. Apparently not. In any large bureaucratic structure that does evil things, most of the decision makers are writing memos and speaking or not speaking in meetings.

Whiplash, no? Dylan Thurston I think lemeul has it right. Everyone remember Larry Summers? On the other hand, what I understand of what has happened to Ms. Almontaser is totally unwarranted, independent of any academic freedom arguments. Not absurd, but not realistic either. In effect, this standard would relieve any high official of culpability for any act that had the consent of the Administration.

Granting tenure is different than the case of firing someone with tenure, which confers a variety of legal rights, both substantive and procedural. I would again suggest that before commenting, it would be advisable to read the longer statement linked, above, esp. There is no question that, as things stand, it would be illegal for Berkeley to even investigate Yoo, let alone terminate him.

That is why, in the end, this really amounts to an attack on him for his ideas. The test is simple. Hope not. The point is that Yoo occupied a position of trust and responsibility, that the memo was a legal document that other people needed to proceed. This is what Leiter tries to evade.

In the real world, broader acceptance of the Farrell pinciple would simply lead to the worst of both worlds — protection of high-profile wrongdoers like Yoo and continued vulnerability for ordinary workers. Second, it closes off discussion of how employers who do possess broad discretion should use it. Remember, we are talking here about either public instituions, or non-profits with a strong public presence and mission.

Their decisions about hiring and firing are and at least in the case of e. This is politically self-defeating and I think, unconvincing even as an ideal. Again, I sympathize with skeptics on the procedural rights questions. Sortition This is the trickle down theory of free speech or free action. The theory states that if we insist that the powerful high-placed officials and high-profile academics enjoy full immunity for their speech and actions, then someday regular folks may also enjoy similar protections.

Occupying positions of power is wrong to begin with, but doubly so when used to promote evil policies. Free speech and actions by normal citizens should be protected — the powers of the elites should be confronted. As I have pointed out before, this is not correct. Apparently, at an institution devoted principally to training future lawyers, the fact that a law professor rendered stunningly incompetent legal advice is not supposed to even be a factor in whether he should continue teaching law students.

Whether to fire a law prof for stunning incompetence is a fair question. This is not the sort of question you can answer from first principles. You really do have to look at specific cases on their own merits. What does Yoo think a legal opinion for a client is supposed to do, and why does he think his memos did it? History and experience show pretty plainly that when you invite public opinion into such decisions, you make possible the interference you see with Pipes in the Almontaser case.

They hope that the issues are confused in order to gain the support of citizens who—with a better view of the issues at stake—would be suspicious of their mission. Academics should make every honest effort to prevent that from happening. Yes, universities are not courts, and they have made what is surely a correct decision not to try to be courts of criminal justice.

What would universities be like if allegations that a faculty member had committed a crime could trigger a university investigation into the possible crime? Yet universities conduct investigations all the time. They investigate allegations of misconduct by both students and faculty, and these investigations can have serious consequences for the accused. Students may be expelled, and faculty, even tenured faculty, fired on various grounds.

Of course these are not criminal trials, since the university has no power to impose criminal penalties. Still they are, I assume, reasonably well-designed proceedings with standards of proof, ample opportunity for the accused to mount a defense, and so on. And of course these proceedings are often triggered by allegations. What else? So the idea that the university ought not, and cannot, conduct actual criminal trials seems to have been turned into the idea that it cannot conduct any sort of quasi-judicial proceeding for the purpose of disciplining members of its own community.

Other schools are under no obligation to hire him. But they should be the ones to decide in the end whether they want Yoo or not. If Henry, or you, or I want to sound off on Yoo or Almontaser, why is that a problem or a contradiction of my argument? Both cases are matters of public interest, and good citizens ought to express themselves on them.

If we have informed and well-reasoned opinions, maybe the good folks at Berkeley Law will pay attention to us. Jason McCullough Sucks, but there you go. As for Pipes—by the way—he has every right to run his mouth about supposedly subversive teachers, too. What also connects the cases says I is the issue of public opinion either actually Almontaser or potentially Yoo obstructing or replacing the judgment of faculty about an academic appointment.

We should defend the former but not the latter for the simple reason that the former but not the latter are under attack. No one has suggested that Berkeley be compelled to do so by the state or federal government; indeed, our premise is precisely that no legal action agfainst Yoo is to be expected. In general, blogs are full of people advocating some course of action without asserting their right to compel it.

They are not the majority, or even a plurality, but they are loud. Consider how close they are to what Pipes is doing, by the way: there, the argument would be that insisting that Almontaster deserves the protection of academic freedom, she or the faculty are hiding Islamofascism behind academic freedom—that is, using it as an instrument.

Both are out of line. The argument I understand you to be making is more complex: that Yoo has failed to meet standards of conduct and competence that the faculty have already decided are the conditions of the privilege of academic freedom as far as they are obligated to extend and protect it.

Again, it threatens to reduce procedures for stripping someone of academic privileges to a means to an end: getting rid of Yoo. People are arguing that the faculty should decide to fire Yoo, not that Yoo should be fired regardless of what the faculty thinks. I might think less well of them, but that depends on their rationale and the facts they adduce. Oops — sorry I shot my blog-mouth off too quickly, Maurice; I see you do treat of competence later in your comment. And she has been parrticularly insistent that Berkeley faculty take the lead.

As far as I can tell, most of the rest of us who wnat to see Yoo removed take similar views. Here we are on trickier terrain. It seems that, at the moment, Berkely faculty are not prepared to take the actions needed to remove Yoo. Sufficient public criticism might shame them into doing so. I think this would be a good thing. Do you? So why not shame them into doing what they said they would do?

Under these conditions, I do have a real problem signing on to a public shaming exercise. A move among other law faculties—who share the same vocation as the Berkeley faculty and observe the same principles—to censure them would be more acceptable to me, and they could further put pressure on the school by encouraging their talented undergraduates to look elsewhere for law school so long as Yoo remains.

While that would be nice, to some it was functioning just the way they wanted. As the election nears more mice in Congress will attempt to roar, meow. New inferences of subpoenas will be tossed and more fingers wagged. Real and effective action is not likely. Yoo will get an endowed waterboarding chair. Alberto and Mike will join in with John for a rousing rendition of Sore Like and Eagle and all will be right in the world. I just want to express my reaction to the OP, which is:.

You say that like it's a bad thing. CAIR's leadership deserve nothing but the hangman's noose after exceptionally agonistic debriefing. At day's end this is the central issue. The West is attempting to fight fair against an enemy that will weaponize every single honorable instinct, trait and institution which we hold dear.

That they will do so while employing unlimited deceit and treachery at every turn is only icing on the urinal cake of Islam. Either we put an end to the constant oxygen theft of Islam's top echelons or resign ourselves to a holocaust of stupendous proportions. The only remaining variable is whether the West or Islam sits atop that pyre. Post a Comment. Keith Ellison, and many other luminaries are in attendance.

A few days ago David Yerushalmi filed a federal civil complaint alleging criminal fraud and racketeering against CAIR. Days was billed as an advisor and counsel who could provide legal services to members of CAIR in need of help. According to the complaint, not only did Mr.

Days fail to provide legal services as requested and paid for, he was not even an attorney. The complaint asserts that when CAIR found out about the problem, the organization covered the situation up, even going to the extreme of denying any direct relationship with Morris Days. Several clients of CAIR were referred to David Yerushalmi, whose law office put together the civil complaint and filed it in federal court.

Associates of Mr. We are fortunate that volunteers were on hand to videotape this auspicious occasion. Gaubatz's assistant distributed copies of the summons to tables throughout the dinner. It is also available at saneworks. The other people named in the complaint can look forward to being served within the next week. The dinner is ongoing and readers here will be able to see the Youtube video which was edited and uploaded to Youtube immediately after the dessert course.

Awad has just finished talking at the banquet, and the notorious Siraj Wahhaj is about to speak. The fact that CAIR has victimized Muslims and non-Muslims alike demonstrates that CAIR is only looking out for CAIR and its ongoing effort to bilk donors out of millions of dollars of charitable donations thinking they are supporting a legitimate organization.

Stay tuned. Congressman Ellison D-Minn was a guest speaker at this affair. While attorney David Yerushalmi represents the four plaintiffs in this particular lawsuit, two of whom are African American Muslims, the complaint alleges that according to CAIR internal documents, there were hundreds of victims of the CAIR-Days fraud scheme.

According to the complaint, CAIR failed to conduct a background check on Days prior to hiring him and when they did discover his massive fraud, they immediately set about to cover it up.

I think Steve Quester is right on.

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Almontaser abetting Also, since those guys have no interest in the truth almontaser abetting anything, only their own advantage, one of two things will always happen: 1. Both are out of line. And the Almontaser case seems totally off point to me. Real and effective action is not likely. In Palestine, as in New York City, the word has taken on a new meaning.
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Like. Liked. Members of Congress Abetted Insurrection‏ @​RyanJSuto 26 Jun More. Copy link to Tweet; Embed Tweet. Liked. Members of Congress Abetted Insurrection‏ @RyanJSuto 24 Sep More. Copy link to Tweet; Embed Tweet. Replying to @. The principal, Debbie Almontaser, was quoted yesterday interpreting of ties to Islamic terrorism, vowing it would actually abet discrimination.